[00:00:00] ANNE BOGEL: You know, I still haven't read that one.
KATE MOSESSO: Oh, Anne, it's so great.
ANNE: All right, What Should I Read Next? fun fact. I am 500% more likely to read something when a guest says, "Oh, Anne."
Hey readers, I'm Anne Bogel, and this is What Should I Read Next?. Welcome to the show that's dedicated to answering the question that plagues every reader, what should I read next? We don't get bossy on this show. What we will do here is give you the information you need to choose your next read. Every week we'll talk all things books and reading, and do a little literary matchmaking with one guest.
[00:00:50] Readers, if you've been tuning into our show for a while now, you've heard us talk about Modern Mrs. Darcy Book Club, but I often hear from listeners that they don't realize what's happening in that space or how much is included with a book club membership. A recent survey really confirmed this for us.
So today I want to share a quick peek at the range of what we do with our book club offerings. In 2025, we organized our fourth annual readers’ retreat. We talked with 11 authors, including fantastic conversations with Charmaine Wilkerson, Kevin Wilson, and Virginia Evans. We learned more about commonplace books and created personal curriculums. We hosted journaling, read-along, and study hall sessions, and we celebrated Summer Reading Guide unboxing and, more recently, fall book preview live.
In 2026, we have many more of these sorts of things in the works that we're looking forward to. Our team Best Books of the Year event is coming up in January. And this is not an a la carte event. It's only for our communities. We are planning to talk with Simon Van Booy, who wrote Sipsworth, in January, and we have more great authors we cannot wait to share with you, but mum's the word for now.
[00:01:54] We have our February Readers Day with a Spring Book Preview themed library chat coming up, our Summer Reading Guide unboxing, of course, Austen in August, and more good nerdy fun. I hope you'll join us in 2026. It's a big year for us. Modern Mrs. Darcy Book Club turns 10 this year.
And if you're planning on joining, I hope you'll do it soon because on January 8th, we're hosting that fifth annual marquee event, Best Books of the Year, with the whole Modern Mrs. Darcy team. So become a member today and join us in 2026 as we continue to read better together. Or pass along this idea to someone doing last-minute holiday shopping and have them buy you a membership as a gift. We'd love to see you there. Find out more or sign up now at modernmrsdarcy.com/club. That's modernmrsdarcy.com/club.
[00:02:43] Readers, today's guest has maintained a unique reading project since 2021, and today we're going to hear all about it and explore how she's adding a new twist for 2026.
Kate Mosesso is a reader and improv comedian who lives and works in Chicago. She's a lifelong reader, and while she loves the stories on the page, she's an even bigger fan of the connections that reading fosters. Since 2021, Kate's undertaken a community-inspired reading project. Every month, she reads a book recommended by a loved one.
This project has led her to a lot of great books and given her a new way to connect with people she loves: friends, family members, even favorite professors. For 2026, she's thinking of a new angle for this long-time project and is interested in discussing how to make it really work for her.
In 2026, Kate also wants to get out of her comfort zone a bit. There are genres she rarely reads that she would like to explore. And she's really looking for the best offerings of those genres so as to find the right point of entry.
[00:03:42] In her submission, Kate told us that it is too daunting to find new authors. Today, we're going to explore what's happening here and what we can do about it and hopefully set Kate heading into 2026 with confidence and enthusiasm for her reading year to come. Let's get to it.
Kate, welcome to the show.
KATE: Thank you so much for having me. This is very exciting.
ANNE: Oh, well, the pleasure is mine. I can't wait to jump in. Our team was really excited to read your submission. And now, in your own words, Kate, would you tell us about yourself? We want to give our readers a glimpse of who you are.
KATE: I live in Chicago, Illinois. I've been here since 2009, and I never want to leave. Chicago is the best. I work as a marketing manager for a major law firm in Chicago. Outside of reading, my major activity in Chicago is comedy. I've taken a ton of classes and performed quite a bit around the city.
[00:04:39] Primarily, most of my education was at the fantastic, I would say, world-famous Second City Training Center and Theater. For those who don't know, Second City is a sketch and improv theater that has existed since 1959, and it is the birthplace of just dozens of the best comedians in the United States: Tina Fey, Amy Poehler, Steve Carell, Stephen Colbert. I could fill this whole episode just telling you Second City people.
ANNE: Maybe podcast hosts should all learn to do improv so we can think on our feet. Do you want to tell us about being on Jeopardy!?
KATE: Oh, boy. Yeah, that was an interesting and crazy experience. I was talking to some friends about recording this podcast, and I said, "This is just like Jeopardy!, except it's just as exciting, but there's no potential for humiliation this time, and there's a lot less stress." Really, this is fantastic.
[00:05:42] ANNE: You're a marketer. Can we do something like that? What Should I Read Next?: All the excitement with no humiliation and books. Lots of books.
KATE: Lots of books. Oh, my gosh. I was on Jeopardy! in 2012. And I'm so grateful that I was on during the Alex Trebek era because, no offense to the current host, but I feel like Alex Trebek was Jeopardy!.
ANNE: He was Jeopardy!.
KATE: And that's who I watched with my dad when I was a little kid. Just having that experience and meeting him was just unbelievable. To go with a cliché, it is so much harder than it looks. I didn't do great, but I did get a Daily Double right, and it was about books.
The category was novels with numbers in their titles, and they just gave you character names to get the title, and I got it. It was One Hundred Years of Solitude, which I haven't even read. Maybe I should read it. Although the Final Jeopardy was also about books, and I definitely got that wrong and lost all my money.
[00:06:53] ANNE: As happens on Jeopardy!.
KATE: Exactly.
ANNE: Kate, I'd love to hear about your reading life now. What do you want to share?
KATE: Well, I am definitely a lifelong reader. My mom is a reading teacher, and we were definitely raised to love books. My parents both read to us all the time. My dad read us the children's classics at bedtime. Some of them were bigger hits than others. I remember just being so bored by some of them. I won't say which ones, but there were some hits.
I mean, I loved Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, anything by Roald Dahl. Some of my very favorite books as a kid that I know you're familiar with because of You've Got Mail, and I think you've read them, were the Betsy-Tacy books.
ANNE: I did read them, but not until I was in my maybe 30s.
KATE: Yeah, they're not as well-known. Had you not heard of them when you were younger?
[00:07:49] ANNE: No. I believe the first time I heard of them was in You've Got Mail.
KATE: I was so excited when they were mentioned in You've Got Mail. I jumped out of my seat.
ANNE: I love that for you.
KATE: Yeah. When I was growing up, it was kind of a battle. I always wanted to read, most of the time kind of like the fast food, fast fashion books of the era, like The Baby-sitters Club and Sweet Valley Twins, and a million other series that came out, like Clockwork every month.
My parents were always kind of trying to push me toward the literary children's books, the classics, but there were some of those that I loved too. I loved Anne of Green Gables. I do remember that as I got older, maybe like the junior high, high school years, I kind of didn't know where to go next because I felt like I was outgrowing kids' books, and adult books were just like this monolith. Like the adult side of the library, I was like, "Where do I even start? How do I find a book here that I'm going to enjoy and understand?"
[00:08:53] I kind of stopped reading for a while because I just really didn't know where to start. Plus, in high school, you've got so many other things competing for your attention. So yeah, that was kind of a drought, which is sad to think of. But luckily, I had a really, really fantastic English teacher in high school, Miss Sebes, who I am definitely going to get in touch with and send her this podcast when it comes out.
ANNE: I love that.
KATE: She was the best teacher, changed lives.
ANNE: I love that you're still in touch with her.
KATE: Yeah. She was like a hero to many of us at my school. So that was junior year. It was American literature, and she just wanted us to love books. She loved books. And it really rubbed off on me and I think a lot of us.
[00:09:47] The thing I remember the most that she did that I think was genius was that, outside of teaching the curriculum, which was pretty traditional, you know, The Scarlet Letter, those types of books, she also gave us... I remember this really long list of books by American authors, most of which were more recent and less likely to be assigned in a school curriculum. Everybody in my class had to read one book and do an oral presentation on it.
ANNE: Oh, my gosh. That's an amazing assignment. You know when adults create literary societies where they just share what they're reading, that's basically what we do, just like your teacher.
KATE: Oh, my gosh. It was such a great idea because it introduced us to so many books, many of which I thought, "I want to read that." These are books I wasn't familiar with, but my classmates made them sound great. And I did read a lot of those books.
[00:10:45] In fact, I still remember the book I read, and I would have put it in my three books that I love, but I've listened to this podcast a lot, and I know that other people have talked about this book, and they've talked about it well, so I didn't feel like I needed to.
ANNE: Tell us what it is, Kate.
KATE: Fried Green Tomatoes at the Whistle Stop Cafe.
ANNE: Oh, love it. Hey, you know I still haven't read that one.
KATE: Oh, Anne, it's so great.
ANNE: All right. What Should I Read Next? fun fact. I am 500% more likely to read something when a guest says, "Oh, Anne," when they find out I haven't.
KATE: Well, a friend of mine just said to me recently that she was jealous of me that I was going to get to be able to read... It was Writers and Lovers by Lily King. She was so jealous that I was going to get to read it for the first time. That's how I kind of feel. You're going to get to read Fried Green Tomatoes for the first time, Anne.
[00:11:40] ANNE: It's on my shelf. Probably after a guest chose it as a favorite, I spotted it at a used book sale and grabbed it, and it's waiting for me. It's ready. But what a fun assignment. And I'm realizing that what your classmates probably gave you, aside from a bunch of book recommendations that made you go, "Oh, yes, that," or, "Well, you know, maybe," is what gold is lurking on those library shelves.
KATE: Absolutely. It was like a roadmap that I felt like I didn't have before I took this class. And I think more than anything else, that teacher made me a lifelong reader. Thank you, Miss Sebes. Teachers change lives.
ANNE: Oh, thank you, Miss Sebes. Now, Kate, I'm listening to your story about Miss Sebes and getting recommendations from trusted sources and the influence of this teacher in your life. So now I'm starting to get a fuller picture of how you came to decide that every month since 2021, where you get a book recommendation. Here, Kate, I'm handing it over to you now. Would you tell us more about this influence in your reading life that's been, I think, working for you for quite a few years now?
[00:12:49] KATE: Absolutely. It has been working for me. I love getting recommendations from loved ones. It started during COVID, you know, not a busy time in my life. And I was kind of looking for a project, and I hit on the idea of asking a loved one for a book recommendation every month. I made a list of 12 people to start with, people in my life who love books and I asked them for their favorite book or a book they read recently. Every month, I would read one. And it's been great.
I have to be honest that sometimes I kind of fall off depending on what's happening in my life. So I haven't 100% stuck to the goal of reading one every month. But it has steered me to some fantastic reading. It also creates another connection between me and the person who recommended the book. And I love that.
ANNE: Would you give us a sampling of who's recommended books to you in this project?
[00:13:51] KATE: Oh, of course. Well, the wide range of ages is one great thing. You know, my nieces and nephews who are in high school have recommended books. Long Way Down, The Maze Runner, both good. One of the people I took a recommendation this year from is someone no longer with us, my grandmother who passed away in 1997. But I remembered that in her house, she had a shelf full of Jeeves novels. And I thought maybe this year I could read one of those in honor of my grandmother.
So yeah, people of different ages with various interests. A lot of times it was a great prompt to read a book that I'd been meaning to read for a long time. Like one friend recommended A Prayer for Owen Meany. I owned it, I knew everyone loved it, I had never read it. And I did read it because my friend loved it, and it was great.
[00:14:45] One of the best recommendations I got this past year was from my favorite professor. She recommended Kate Quinn. I picked The Briar Club, which I loved. It was fascinating historical fiction, found family. I'll talk about that more later. I love a book with a found family. And it was also set in Washington, D.C., which is where I grew up. And I always love that in a book.
ANNE: Well, I'm glad that was a win for you. Is this a project you intend to continue into the future?
KATE: I think so, because I haven't run out of people yet who I want to get recommendations from. Plus, I often circle back to the same people. But I did have an idea. I don't know where I got this idea, but I thought for next year it might be fun to make a list of my favorite celebrities and try to find out what books they loved. I assume a lot of them have given interviews where they mentioned a book that they loved.
[00:15:39] Some of them I even already know. Like Nora Ephron, one of my very favorite authors, wrote a fantastic essay about how much she loved The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay.
ANNE: Oh, I haven't read this.
KATE: I think it was in I Feel Bad About My Neck. She read widely and deeply. She was quite a reader. Anyway, so I thought that might be a fun kind of twist to put on it for the next year. So I started making the list. It's mostly comedians, not surprising. But I'd love to see what kind of books my heroes love.
ANNE: Okay, because you get to know people in a different way when you see what they enjoy as a reader. Am I tracking?
KATE: I agree. Yeah. I think that all the time that I love to read a book and think, "Oh, I can see why my friend from high school likes this book," or I can see why my nephew likes this book. And when I read a book, I'm always thinking about who might like it. I think reading has a reputation for being solitary, but it connects people.
[00:16:41] ANNE: Would you say more about that?
KATE: Well, just looking back at my life, I just remember so many times that I connected with somebody because we both like to read, or people in my life, that's one of the things we talk about a lot. Like every time I talk to my family, what are you reading? And it's not like they're saying it like they're trying to trap me and find out that I'm not reading. That would never happen. It's out of interest.
My best friend, Meg, who I met in first grade, the first thing I even remember about her is that we both loved Ramona Quimby.
ANNE: Oh my gosh, that's amazing. Yeah.
KATE: I have a picture of the two of us sitting side by side on my parents' patio just reading in companionable silence. Yeah, that's a great friend that you can just read with.
ANNE: That picture sounds like a treasure. Kate, I love hearing how this informs your reading life. And I'm also noticing that we can only read the books we know about. But by soliciting month after month these recommendations from readers who mean a lot to you, you can read books that they know about and just really widen your circle of possibilities, but in a way that's by design not going to overwhelm you.
KATE: Exactly.
[00:17:54] ANNE: Just bringing in one carefully selected, but not necessarily by you title at a time. Okay. I'm going to keep all that in mind.
Kate, what brings you to the show right now? What are we hoping to do today?
KATE: Well, thanks to your podcast, blog, book club, I'm never lacking for recommendations, but I want to find the best ones. There are so many books and so little time. One thing I've been noticing lately is that I stick to certain genres, and that's not always a good idea.
For example, there are a few really good domestic noir novels. I love those books when they're well done, but now there are a million of them because they're popular. I read the worst book over the weekend. It was The Housemaid by Freida McFadden, if you're wondering.
ANNE: I am wondering. Thank you.
[00:18:56] KATE: Yeah. It was not well-written. It was derivative. It didn't make sense. Also, I don't want to read about this stuff. It was too violent. Don't put these ideas in my head. You know what I mean?
ANNE: Yeah.
KATE: The thing is, why did I pick it up? Well, because I enjoyed The Wife Between Us or Gone Girl. I didn't love Gone Girl, but I enjoyed it. I feel like instead of reading deeply into a genre that has some good and some bad books, what I should be doing is reading widely and reading the best books in lots of genres. I don't do that. I don't read enough narrative nonfiction. I don't read a ton of historical fiction. I read some. I read The Briar Club and it was great. But I should read more because historical fiction, when it's well done, it can be fantastic. I don't read very much fantasy or sci-fi.
[00:19:56] Similar to what I was saying with my teacher in high school giving us a point of entry, I guess I'm looking for a point of entry into more genres that I don't read as often.
ANNE: I just looked up that book on Goodreads and it has a 4.28. So, that book is satisfying a lot of readers who are looking for something different than you are looking for in your reading. So, we could try to figure out what that is and really assess what's going on with this particular book. I think our time might be better spent to try and figure out what are you looking for? Like what makes the best book for Kate? I think that maybe is our question.
The good news is like, oh, what fun. This sounds like a blast. The bad news is not easy, but the good news is really enjoyable reading experiences come to those who do, yeah, kind of got to work for it. But it sounds like you have a real potential journey of self-discovery here. I see you get it.
[00:20:51] Now, I don't know how you get all your book recommendations and how you decide what to read next because I don't believe you're just reading books recommended to you by others. And you get to assess what you love, what you don't, what nags at you, what's particularly maybe surprisingly delightful, and all these recommendations you're getting from others. But at the end of the day, when you're choosing for yourself, what are you going to choose? And what's like really going to satisfy there?
It sounds like there's a real opportunity to step into like a new phase in your reading life. Maybe not that different from the transition you made when you got acquainted with the library way back when.
KATE: Maybe.
ANNE: Am I on the right track or no?
KATE: No, I totally agree with you. I mean, the fact that I said a book is terrible and a million people disagree with me, I mean, that is the great thing about fact versus opinion, right?
[00:21:42] ANNE: But also really vexing when you're trying to find a great book. If that's not going to steer you to it, then how can you choose? This happens to me all the time with one specific genre. I'll see early ratings on NetGalley and I'll see that a certain book has all five stars. I'm like, "Oh, I'm definitely at least going to find this one worthwhile." And in one specific genre that no, I'm not going to name because I'd want to say way too much about it to explain why and how, and we're not going to do that today. I'm looking for something different in my books than the readers reading these books early and rating them.
And I'm still teasing out why that's consistently showing up in this genre. I have some theories, but it means that's not going to be a reliable way for me to find books that I consider best in class. So what am I going to do?
[00:22:35] KATE: Well, you know how sometimes a book or even... you know, it happens outside of literary circles, like Hamilton, the musical Hamilton. So many people saw that and loved that, including people who don't really like musicals, you know?
ANNE: Yeah.
KATE: And occasionally a book comes along. I remember when everyone was reading Seabiscuit, people who aren't interested in horse racing, but there was something about that book that really kind of transcended the subject matter and got people interested in it who wouldn't normally be.
ANNE: Best in class is what you're saying?
KATE: Yeah. One thing that's been really helpful to me listening to What Should I Read Next? is that there are all these books that are very well respected and loved, and I have read them and just kind of thought they were okay or just like not really been that interested in them.
I know you talk a lot about the Enneagram. I'm a four, and I feel like when I would read, say, The Dutch House, I didn't really enjoy The Dutch House. I didn't see anything wrong with it. I just wasn't interested. I just didn't care.
[00:23:51] I feel like when that happens, I tend to kind of blame myself. And I think that's an Enneagram 4 thing that I'm like, "I missed something here. It's not you, it's me." But there are so many times that I've listened to What Should I Read Next? and the book that a person didn't like is a book that I thought I was the only person who didn't like it. And it's a very well-respected popular book. And that really kind of made me feel better when I would hear those episodes.
ANNE: I'm glad to hear it. What does that provide for you? Do you know? It sounds like that's really reassuring.
KATE: It's like permission. You know, if you didn't like that book, don't read it again and try to figure out what's great about it and why other people like it, or don't read a bunch more books by that author. Just accept it and find what you do like and kind of trust your intuition, I guess.
[00:24:45] ANNE: So I think I hear you saying that making peace with the idea that a book can be beloved or a book can be objectively like well-crafted and still not make your readerly heart super happy.
KATE: Yeah.
ANNE: All right. I'm excited to see what we're going to end up talking about later when it comes to book recommendations. I have no idea at this point, but we're going to talk about the books you brought to the show and find our way there. Kate, are you ready to tell me about your books?
KATE: I am ready.
ANNE: Well, you know how this works. You're going to tell me three books you love, one you don't, and what you've been reading lately. And we will talk about what you may enjoy reading next. And we'll suss out a little bit more like where you feel pulled right now or what's sounding like a good direction to explore after this conversation. But first, what's the first book you love?
[00:25:41] KATE: The first book that I love is Evening Class by Maeve Binchy. I discovered Maeve Binchy's books in high school, I think because one of them became a movie, Circle of Friends, when I discovered Maeve Binchy, I was in. I've read almost all of her books and Evening Class is my favorite.
I don't know if people would agree that it's her best book, but it's the book where she was most in her own style and working really well in that style. Most of her books, there were a lot of commonalities. They were mostly set in Ireland. She was Irish. They usually featured a big cast of characters that interacted with each other in different ways. There was usually found family, people sort of rallying around some kind of cause or project.
[00:26:40] And there was almost always a happy ending. One time she betrayed me and she killed off a really beloved character, because sometimes the characters would appear in more than one book. So I couldn't believe she did that to me. But other than that...
ANNE: You aren't the only one, I believe.
KATE: Other than that, her books always had a happy ending. Evening Class, in particular, it features a group of people who are taking an Italian class in the evenings. Everybody's got their own reason for being there. Some of them, not possibly the best reason to be there. Some of them aren't even that interested. But everyone really finds a home in this class and really great bonds build between the characters. And at the end, they all take a trip to Italy together. And who doesn't love that?
[00:27:35] The first time I read this book, I actually listened to it, I was with my mom and we were driving some really long road trip. I don't remember what we were doing or why it was just the two of us. But it was long enough ago that we actually had cassette tapes that we got from the library or Blockbuster. We listened to this book and we just loved it. This is going to sound so fake, but toward the very end, the tape malfunctioned, and we lost our minds.
ANNE: I'm sorry. What's fake about that? That sounds horrifying. I think my heart is beating faster imagining being in that car and not being able to find out what happens next.
KATE: Yes. We were like, "What are we going to do?" I think when we got home, we went to the library to get the book, find out what happened. I have read that book since then... I think I've read it five times.
ANNE: I love that for you.
KATE: It just makes me so happy every time I read it.
[00:28:34] ANNE: All right. That's Evening Class by Maeve Binchy. Kate, I am actually shocked that nothing by Maeve Binchy has been a guest favorite on the podcast yet.
KATE: I'm shocked too.
ANNE: Yeah. Yeah. So thank you. Thank you for doing the honors.
KATE: Oh, you're welcome.
ANNE: And by shocked readers, I just mean she's so prolific, I'm surprised she hasn't come up yet until today. Kate, what's the second book you love?
KATE: I wanted to bring up a book from when I was growing up because I loved reading so much as a kid. So this book is A Very Young Dancer by Jill Krementz. I think we're pretty close in age. Do you remember this book?
ANNE: No, I don't believe. I didn't remember hearing about this one until I read your submission.
KATE: It was kind of a relic of its time. It hasn't really stayed famous, but I feel like when I was a kid I saw it on a lot of bookshelves. It was kind of a coffee table-sized book filled with these beautiful black and white photographs.
[00:29:33] It was a true story told in kind of a photo journalistic style. And it was about this young girl who took ballet in Manhattan at the school that was affiliated with City Ballet. And she auditioned and was cast as Clara in The Nutcracker with New York City Ballet.
The author, photographer basically followed her through this entire process, you know, the audition, the wardrobe fitting, the rehearsals, the opening night, everything. One of the things I loved about it was just that it was about ballet. I also took ballet, although I took ballet in a strip mall, not Lincoln Center. So it was a little different. You know, it was a great story.
The thing that I loved about it that I feel like still applies to my reading life is that I remember being fascinated by the kind of background detail the book gave you. You know, the girl would explain how rehearsals worked or what did it look like backstage? Where was the dressing room? I remember thinking that was fascinating. And I still really love a book where you get a lot of behind-the-scenes detail about some really interesting experience.
[00:30:53] ANNE: That was A Very Young Dancer by Jill Krementz. Kate, what's the third book you love?
KATE: The third book is very different from the first two. It is The Godfather by Mario Puzo.
ANNE: Also a What Should I Read Next? first. Tell me more.
KATE: Huh? Well, it is, of course, the book that became the fantastic movie. But as in almost every case, not every case, but almost every case, the book... actually, I don't know if the book is better, but it offers so much that the movie can't. Everyone probably knows the story, you know, of an organized crime family. It's an epic. It spans years. It is just a fantastic story. It is a total page-turner. It goes into a lot more detail than the movie can, obviously, because they don't... you know, fewer constraints.
[00:31:54] You get so much information about these characters. And it's fantastically written, like the descriptions of how everyone looked. Like in a movie, you can't get a whole paragraph about what somebody's face looked like and how you can tell that they're evil and violent just from their facial expression. But it is masterful work that this author did.
You know, there are some issues with this book. Obviously, there is racism, there is misogyny, lots and lots of violence. So, you know, trigger warnings everywhere you look. But on top of being a great story, it is a book that gets you thinking about, you know, the reasoning behind a family that would choose to operate this way. And also just a really fascinating snapshot of a time and place, you know, New York City after World War II. I love a book that keeps me up reading pages. You know, The Godfather does that for me.
[00:32:52] ANNE: Well, I love that you brought that to the show. I have never read the book. I feel like I vicariously experienced chunks of it because The Godfather is cited in so many writing books.
An example to look to when you're learning how to craft a great story, half the Bogel family just finally saw the movie a couple months ago for the first time. So now all those You've Got Mail references are landing in a different way. I was shocked at how violent it was. And my boys were like, "Mom, seriously? Like, seriously? It's The Godfather. You didn't know?"
But I'm, yeah, I'm so intrigued by your description on what can happen in the page that wasn't in the story. I chuckled at your submission when you're like, "Ah, apparently it was made into a movie."
Okay. Great characters, plot and pacing. What a story. And I'm noticing you really like the textural details. Like you mentioned what New York City might have been like then. And you mentioned, describing A Very Young Dancer, how you love these portraits of people at work and like any behind-the-scenes information. We're filing that away.
[00:33:59] Kate, tell us about a book that wasn't a good fit, and I'd love to hear why as well.
KATE: Okay. The book that was not a great fit for me that I read recently was The Five-Star Weekend by Elin Hilderbrand. I didn't hate this book. It wasn't that bad, but it wasn't for me. It's okay if a book isn't super deep, you know, if it's just a fun story. That's fine. But sometimes there are issues with the writing that just make it kind of distract the reader and or distract me anyway.
And sometimes, you know, issues with the writing just kind of get in the way of enjoying the book. And that's kind of what happened. You know, the story is that this woman has experienced the sudden loss of her husband and it's been about six months and as a way to cope with her grief, she decides to invite a group of friends for a really special weekend on Nantucket.
[00:34:56] You know, it's kind of similar to what I said about Evening Class. You know, lots of characters, lots of sort of subplots going on. But in this case, there were a lot of just very cliched plot lines. That's fine if you're going to find a new angle on those plot lines. But in this case, they were just kind of plain as is.
The other thing I didn't like about it was that the characters were just kind of awful to each other, the five friends, and it just kind of bothered me. I just don't like reading about people being crappy to each other, kind of mean people. And it's kind of like The Real Housewives. Like, I just don't want to read about that.
ANNE: Gotcha. Okay, so The Five-Star Weekend, Elin Hilderbrand, not for you. Kate, what have you been reading lately?
KATE: I just finished The Plot by Jean Hanff Korelitz. And great story, page-turner. Again, fascinating. A lot of food for thought. I've already got a copy of the sequel, which is actually called The Sequel, and I can't wait to read it.
[00:36:04] ANNE: Okay. Kate, where do you want to take our recommendations? So you mentioned wanting to get out of your comfort zone a bit. You mentioned looking for books that are best of class. You've mentioned that you're interested in exploring new genres. We've heard a couple specific things you like. We could do dealer's choice. What are you thinking?
KATE: Maybe a few recommendations, possibly in new genres, but it's okay if they're not, that have some of my favorite things in them, like found family, interesting detail about a person's life.
ANNE: Okay. Talk to me about science fiction and fantasy, which you specifically called out as a genre you're interested in exploring more in, in your submission.
KATE: I sort of feel, well, a lot of people like science fiction and fantasy. Maybe I should be reading them too. Maybe I'm missing something. I don't know if I really am, though. Maybe I should just accept that I like what I like.
ANNE: Well, I mean, you could do some investigating and see how it lands, because both and is really a possibility there.
KATE: Yeah.
[00:37:06] ANNE: All right. So, Kate, the books you enjoyed were Evening Class by Maeve Binchy, A Very Young Dancer by Jill Krementz, and The Godfather by Mario Puzo. Not For You, The Five-Star Weekend by Elin Hilderbrand. The characters and the way they treated each other, you didn't want to hang out with them on the page.
And then lately you've been reading The Plot by Jean Hanff Korelitz with The Sequel on deck. And I also heard you talk about The Briar Club by Kate Quinn. Oh, and you mentioned you're interested in exploring more historical fiction. Actually, I'd forgotten about that.
Now, we know you have more recommendations coming in from your loved ones, and you've got some celebrity recommendations on the horizon. But what else should you read next?
[00:37:53] This book that I suspect may be outside your comfort zone, but not in a direction you anticipated going, is one I'm interested in running by you and seeing how it lands. So The Godfather, obviously a book about organized crime.
Something we talked about in our Fall Book Preview that we just hosted for our Patreon and Book Club and a la carte members is that organized crime is popping up in a lot of books this season, which is something that really surprised me. And all those books have a different feel to them.
And one of them is... this came to mind because it's by author Lou Berney, who's definitely gone in the noir direction before. His books are dark and yet this one was notably lighthearted, especially compared to the last one I read by him that we've talked about on the podcast before. That's the really gritty noir novel, November Road.
But he had this new book come out in September called Crux. Is this one you're familiar with?
KATE: No, I'm not.
[00:38:51] ANNE: Crux is a big-hearted, multi-generational saga-
KATE: Love it.
ANNE: ...about a family whose business is organized crime. So, right from the opening lines, you hear, like, this patriarch of the family just can't help it. I think the first line is, "It's in his blood." And then says, "You don't believe him? Listen to this." And then starts unspooling this yarn about his childhood and how he met his wife during a pickpocket scheme in Vegas and then how they went on to, like, raise their darling little children who are all, you know, eccentric, interesting characters and all raised in the family business. Hear those heavy quotes there. I think this one could be a lot of fun for you and also not something I'm seeing show up in your reads.
So, what we get in this book is, in rotating chapters, the stories of all the family members. First as kids, as Mom and Dad are putting them to work in the family business in Oklahoma City. And then as they grow up. And as they grow up, some of the kids create their own chosen families. And those are so fun to see form.
[00:40:06] Ray's story, the son Ray, was my absolute favorite. He is mob muscle in Vegas. And he decides at a certain point, "I don't want this life. I want to get clean." But he is in deep. And watching him try to figure out a way to make a new life. Oh my gosh, I was rooting for him so hard.
I also really loved Alice. She's the brains in the family, the firstborn daughter, exuding common sense. She renounced her family's life of crime. And yet we see it's in her blood and keeps coming back, trying to get its hooks into her.
I almost quit during... I think this might be the first son's in-depth section. It's set in the 80s. He is running confidence games that involve sex work. And while it wasn't particularly detailed, I was deeply uncomfortable. But I learned that I was going to turn the page at a certain point and move on to the next family member's story, which felt a lot more comfortable.
[00:41:03] So I thought this was such a fun crime novel with heart that takes you in deep with these. It's like rotating points of view, almost like Evening Class, though a very different set of characters. I would describe this as literary suspense. It's got elements that are noir-ish, but it is not that. It's got this really interesting conceit about what the book itself is, but I don't want to say too much. I don't want to give anything away.
So notably lighthearted novel, deeply detailing people's work, found family elements, and also just notably lighthearted with characters you want to root for. How does that sound?
KATE: That sounds perfect for me.
ANNE: I'm glad to hear it. I didn't expect to camp out on organized crime, but I'm definitely wondering if you wanted to take a chance on a, quote, "best book," like a consistent crowd-pleaser that's about 20 years old. It's called The Lies of Locke Lamora by Scott Lynch.
[00:42:07] It's appeared, I believe, twice as a reader favorite in What Should I Read Next?. This is the first book in a series, so there's more where it came from, if you like it. This is like a caper of a novel with this fantasy mafioso that could be really fun to read about.
I remember Elham Ali, back in episode, I think 150 something, described this as a fantastic, exciting, plot-driven, accessible fantasy novel with a heist. And I love a good heist story. When she said Robin Hood meets Ocean's Eleven with a fantasy mafia, I was listening.
So Locke Lamora is an orphan, and his life has been all about just making it to the next day until he gets taken under the wing of a con artist who raises him in the business. So as Locke rises in the ranks, he becomes the leader of this group called the Gentleman Bastards.
[00:43:08] And this gang of thieves starts to engineer what will be their biggest heist yet. But there's enemies who want to shut them down, and suspense and intrigue, and... it's exciting.
What do you think about a crime caper with fantasy elements? Does this feel like an accessible way to step into that genre, or is this too much like crime novel all in one day?
KATE: Well, I would probably have to space them out because sometimes, you know, after the intense crime thriller, I need something a little lighter. But if they're both great books, I'd probably love them both.
ANNE: That sounds good. Can we go in a nonfiction direction?
KATE: I would love that.
ANNE: Okay, I didn't anticipate talking about this today. But as you were describing A Very Young Dancer, I was realizing that the layout and text reminded me so much of a book written by Twyla Tharp called The Creative Habit: Learn It and Use It for Life. Is this a book you know?
[00:44:12] KATE: I think I've heard of it. I have not read it.
ANNE: Okay. It was published 20-something years ago. And she's like an esteemed choreographer who's worked on any number of things that get gently occasionally name-checked in these pages here.
But here she shares what she's learned in her long-running career and how a common audience may apply it. So she goes through her daily routine as a dancer, how she wakes up, and what she puts on, and what she eats for breakfast, and when she leaves the house, and how she does her stretching. And then she goes to work with her staff.
I'm sure some people will read this as a how-to. But the reason I think it would appeal to you is it's just this very interesting look at someone with a career who... I mean, you work in marketing. I work in media. How someone who has a very different creative physical job structures her day to do work that I just... I don't understand. Like even when my kids do three-minute dance routines, like I don't understand how a choreographer says like, "Okay, let's, this is how we're going to even begin to decide how to move our bodies." Like, is it as a unit to create a certain physical look and emotional experience? Like I can't wrap my head around it. But Twyla Tharp helps you do that.
[00:45:28] And she talks about how she structures her life and approaches her work so that she can do that day after day. She's written several books along these lines. I'm really hoping this is the book where she just had this throwaway comment that stuck with me for decades. But she talks about how she was always looking to expand her skills and deepen her craft. And sometimes you do that through unconventional or perhaps not quite obvious pursuits.
And she tells the story about how she decided that she... actually, I'm not sure what's cause and effect here, but she took a theater class. She went to NYU, she audited a monologues class, learned a bunch of stuff she didn't know she didn't know, and as a result, showed up to work differently.
And I remember her specifically saying like, "What do you know? I ran better meetings after I learned about this craft I knew nothing about." And it's full of little tidbits like that that I think you may find interesting. How does that sound?
[00:46:30] KATE: That sounds fantastic. It sounds like the kind of, you know, detail-rich story that I enjoy. I enjoy stories about dance. You know, maybe it could even give me some ideas of how to approach the creative process for my comedy stuff.
ANNE: Yeah. Like for myself, I get my best ideas or my most interesting ideas, out-of-the-box ideas, not from other writers, but from people working in adjacent fields. I love to hear how musicians approach their work, even though my brain cannot do that. I don't sing music, I don't speak music, but like hearing them talk about their process, I think I'm the right distance to just see it in an entirely different way.
KATE: That makes a lot of sense.
ANNE: Okay. And then I'm thinking about just a crowd-pleasing fantasy that's been very popular with a lot of readers. Ooh, or we could do science fiction. Your choice.
KATE: Let's do fantasy.
[00:47:29] ANNE: Okay. Well, I feel like I've been on the Sangu Mandanna train recently, but also our picks are so good for so many readers. Have you read anything by her? It would have been A Witch's Guide to Magical Innkeeping, which is her most recent. Although I was thinking of talking about The Very Secret Society of Irregular Witches. Do either of those books mean anything to you?
KATE: I've read The Very Secret Society.
ANNE: Okay. How did it work for you?
KATE: It didn't necessarily stick with me, but I enjoyed it.
ANNE: Okay. Do you want a book that sticks with you?
KATE: It doesn't need to. Sometimes it's just the journey, you know.
ANNE: Okay. Well, in that case, I do think that perhaps A Witch's Guide to Magical Innkeeping could be a lot of fun for you. So this is an author you've read before. You can decide if you want to do it again, but also it's got those found family elements and just like a really delightful inn that they're hanging out in. I think that could be a lot of fun. But I've talked about it a lot on the podcast, so I don't want to go into gobs of detail about that book.
[00:48:31] Kate, for your final book, because I do want to leave you with something new. Are you familiar with Ink and Bone by Rachel Caine? It's the first in The Great Library series.
KATE: I'm not. I've just heard the title, I think.
ANNE: Okay. Hey, readers, I just had to grab this book off my shelf because I could not remember the title. This book was first published in 2015. Again, first book in the Great Library series. This is a fantasy book about books. So if that is something that floats your boat, listen close.
So in this world, no one is allowed to own books, and The Great Library, capital G, capital L, The Great Library is controlled by scholars. And the scholars at the Great Library get to decide what information and books the masses have access to. But as you can imagine, this is not a great setup for anyone but the scholars. No one is as they seem, nothing is as it looks, and that is true about our hero of the book as well.
[00:49:38] So Jess is the character you will meet who trains to enter the library service as a scholar, but he is also there as a spy for his book-selling family. And the thing is, it's illegal to do such a thing, so nobody can find... I mean, obviously, you don't want to get busted as a spy, but because of who he is and who he's representing, that would be extra bad for him.
So he's trying to navigate this dangerous world, and he also has to decide whose side does he want to be on because nothing is as it seems, and the things he learns inside the Great Library is not what he expected or had been told he would find. So he's got to decide how valuable is knowledge, how powerful is this information, and what is he willing to risk and to sacrifice in order to secure his and the larger community's future. How does that sound?
[00:50:34] KATE: It sounds intriguing. You know, I love a good book about books.
ANNE: Ironic, because nobody can own books in this world. I think this could be a really interesting world. I suspect it will linger, maybe more than some of the other books you've read. I'd be curious to hear if you're interested to read the rest of the series after. But I think this is a good fit for those who... Actually, you know what? This has a historical fiction vibe about it as well.
KATE: Great.
ANNE: But I think this could be a good book for an interesting read with characters that I believe you will enjoy getting to know and spend time with in a world that asks some interesting questions, that feels familiar, and yet the rules it operates by are not the same as the ones of the world we live in. Okay. I'll be curious to hear what you think.
KATE: I'll be sure to let you know.
ANNE: Kate, of the books we talked about today, they were Crux by Lou Berney, The Lies of Locke Lamora by Scott Lynch, The Creative Habit by Twyla Tharp, and then we wanted to send you on your way with a fantasy, we talked about Ink and Bone by Rachel Caine. Of those books, what do you think you might pick up next?
[00:51:45] KATE: I think I'm going to start with Twyla Tharp.
ANNE: I'm excited to hear it and what you think. Kate, this has been a pleasure. Thanks so much for talking books with me today.
KATE: Thank you so much, Anne. This has been so much fun.
ANNE: Hey, readers. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Kate today, and I'd love to hear what you think she should read next. Find the full list of titles we talked about today at whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com.
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